how much more evidence do you need? mark driscoll’s mars hill church is a cult

Mark Driscoll

Cult leader Mark Driscoll

You must read Matthew Paul Turner’s most recent exposé of cult leader Mark Driscoll and his Mars Hill Church’s cult behavior when it comes to church discipline.

You simply will not believe what is going on behind the scenes at Mars Hill. We’ve already seen Mark Driscoll discuss (watch about the 3 minute mark) how he builds his church by intentionally targeting young men and their businesses. But now, Mars Hill’s disciplinary practices have been exposed for the cult tactics they are.

Now, according to Turner, a copy of a Mars Hill ‘church discipline’ contract is posted online, where the ‘sinner’ who has been ‘brought under church discipline’ has his sins spelled out, and in turn is asked to write out his further sins in full detail, meet with a prescribed ‘community group’ regularly, ‘write out in detail his sexual and emotional attachment history with women and share it with’ the pastor, and ‘write out a list of all people he has sinned against during this time frame, either by sexual/emotional sin, lying or deceiving, share it with’ the pastor.

Also available is the letter of ‘church discipline’ sent to the rest of the church after the member decided to leave the Mars Hill church. The document spells out the terms of the excommunication, citing the sexual nature of the individual’s sins, and detailing what members of the Mars Hill community can and cannot do with the excommunicated former member on their own time.

It will turn your stomach.

Dr. Benjamin Zablocki, Chair of the Department of Sociology at Rutgers University, defines a religious cult as “an ideological organization held together by charismatic relationships and the demand of total commitment,” usually due “to members’ adulation of charismatic leaders,” often “contributing to the leaders becoming corrupted by power.” (Zablocki, Benjamin, “A Sociological Theory of Cults,” presented at the annual meetings of the American Family Foundation, Philadelphia, PA, 1997.) In my opinion, the behavior of Mark Driscoll and his Mars Hill church meets the classic definition of a religious cult.

The individual in Turner’s exposé is compelled as a condition of further participation in the group to write out in detail a list of his potentially shameful personal sexual history, while refusal to do so leads to personal details already confessed to the leadership being revealed to the community, along with directives to the community to ostracize and not communicate with the excommunicated individual – a community which in many cases is the sole friendship and support group for the individual. That is the definite activity of a cult.

We all knew that Mark Driscoll was a tumor on the face of Christianity, but these latest revelations may signal the end for the community, which if we’re honest, is probably not a bad thing at all.

Go read it. Part 1. Part 2.

If you a member of the Mars Hill church, get out. And if you would like help getting out, feel free to comment below or email me, and I can refer you to counselors who specialize in helping people remove themselves from abusive relationships, communities, and cults.

Robert R. Cargill

63 Responses

  1. “leads to personal details already confessed to the leadership being revealed to the community,”

    Much like Scientology – during the endless ‘auditing’ sessions, members confess or reveal scandalous or embarrassing facts about themselves, which go into files, and which come out if the person later tries to leave or turns against Scientology.

  2. It sounds like an over zealous ‘elder’ needs to be pulled into line here. I think we need to take church discipline seriously, but handle it gracefully. Here in Australia when a high profile minister fell into disgrace – a church from a different denomination was approached to handle the discipline and restoration process.

    I think this approach was very healthy for all concerned.

  3. Well said, Dr. Bob. Finally someone is calling it like it is!

  4. If God is like Mark Discroll, then to quote J. Dom Crossan (who is quoting Job’s wife) we should really just curse god and die.

    I am amazed as a former evangelical at just how many evangelicals actually take this fool seriously. One of my childhood friends “liked” this guy on facebook, and he is studying to be a youth minister/pastor!!!!!!! I fear that Ken ham, James Dobson, and conservative apologetics have so captivated conservative evangelicals that it seems that they have completely lost the ability to critically think about what someone is talking about if they are behind a pulpit!

  5. Hold off Aaron, Mr. axe-to-grind,

    I’m an evangelical, and no I didn’t flush my brain at my conversion. I pegged Driscoll the moment I saw him. I’ve studied his doctrine and his practices. He is NO evangelical. He is neo-gnostic mystic, with pretensions of grandeur, megalomaniac and an open view of the canon. NO evangelical worthy of the name would be anything but a cessationist. The canon is closed, there is no revelation, and any appeal to a direct experience of God is a form of metaphysical monism, where the self is absorbed into the divine. The guy’s a 24-carat freak. Please don’t tar us with the same bunch.

    Gus Gianello

  6. […] and will respond, but on spectacular note is Dr. Cargill’s response. He’s right – it’s a cult. He warns, If you a member of the Mars Hill church, get out. And if you would like help getting […]

  7. This is stupid. You’re in Iowa. And you are calling someone from Seattle a cult leader. Please. His actions are in line with the scriptural patterns. But you may refer to all of the new testament church presented in the Bible as a “cult” You mentioned his videos…Is that all you know? Did you get hurt by a cult and now are a cynical engineer toward the motives of every religious organization? I know Mark. Not well. But Mark is following a biblical pattern. It’s just he’s at a really really big church. No one likes to be called out. Especially in regard to their sexual sins. It’s uncomfortable. But just because for once someone is actually doing it deosn’t make them a cult leader. It shows they care about the cancer in our society that is the sexually dishonorable and deviant behavior towards eachother that happens all the time and this church has enough balls to actually try and expose one of the worst things in our society for what it is. Sinful. Sorry if you have a problem with that. But you’re probabally someone who does have a problem with sexually inappropriate behavior and being told the truth is difficult for you to deal with. It’s ok. But I was glad when someone called me out and held me accountable. I didn’t like it at first either. Maybe it’s time for someone to hold you accountable to a few things?

  8. […] on the erratic and dangerous Driscoll, and I hope you that are soft to this madman will read this here. Cargill and Matthew Paul Turner have been watching, and this new revelation about Driscoll’s […]

  9. lol. i loved your opening: ‘this is stupid. you’re in iowa.’ lol.
    yes, from the outset, your comments are rooted in logic, as no one outside of seattle can possibly know and comprehend a ‘pastor’ who makes marketing on youtube a priority.

    please show me the ‘biblical pattern’ in the nt mark is following that authorizes him to order a member to write a list of past sins, submit it to the church leadership, and sign a contract as a condition of continued membership, and where failure to do so results in the public broadcast of the aforementioned list of sins, the shaming and humiliation of the member, and instructions to the rest of the membership to avoid contact with the individual?

    by the way, since you will no doubt appeal to matt 18:17, please tell me:
    how did jesus treat tax collectors and pagans? here are some hints: luke 18:10-14. luke 19:1-10. matt 10:3.
    how did jesus treat those caught in sexual sin? hint: john 8:1-11. (and please don’t argue that what he wrote in the sand was a disciplinary contract ;-)



  10. A religious group held together by members’ total commitment to a charismatic leader? Sounds an awful lot like NT Christianity to me…
    You can’t use the word “cult” as an insult, it’s just a classification of a religious group. What Mars Hill is doing may be wrong and despicable, but church discipline plays no part in determining whether a group is a cult or not, even by the definition you cited. Of course, “Mark Driscoll is the leader of a church with particularly strict church discipline” doesn’t bring in quite as many readers as “Mars Hill is a cult”…

  11. jim,

    charismatic leadership and a neo-fundamentalist doctrine do not by themselves meet the threshold of a designation as a cult. however, when coupled with the requirement of a written confession of sins, that is then passed onto members of the community if the one ‘under discipline’ decides to leave voluntarily, along with instructions to the members not to fraternize with the now ex-member (even on their own time away from church sponsored-activities) thereby claiming authority over all aspects of the members’ lives and free times, and the continued consolidation of leadership under one man (and the dismissal of any/all in the administration that disagree with the leader), then, in my opinion, meets the threshold of a definition of a cult.

    the revelation of details of one’s otherwise privately confessed sins (or, to follow 1 Cor. 13:5, ‘record of wrongs,’ again, not defining ‘wrongs’ in legal terms (as being sexually intimate with one’s fiancée is not illegal in the u.s.), but the cult’s definition of ‘wrong’) as punishment (or an attempt to shame the individual) for expressing a desire to voluntarily leave the organization constitutes the activity of a cult.

    bob cargill

  12. […] Dr. Robert Cargill, how much more evidence do you need?  mark driscoll’s mars hill church is a cult. […]

  13. @Joe, considering that Mars Hill is expanding all over the Western United States (recent church plants in Portland, Orange County, California and Albuquerque, New Mexico), also has a major influence over the Acts 29 church network, and Driscoll himself just had a book on the New York Times bestseller list, I think that calling out this behavior is not only right, but appropriate and necessary. However, I am a little prejudiced in this regard as ‘ve made a point of alerting people to the actions and activities of a certain space-alien cult *cough*Scientology*cough* for the last 18 or so years. The first commenter is correct; the only difference between the behavior of Mars Hill and Scientology is that one is allegedly Christian and the other isn’t. They’re both engaging in cultlike behavior.

  14. My sister goes to MHC, and my mother listens to the podcasts of Driscoll’s sermons. I am at a loss as to how to show them how dangerous he and his church are. It’s frustrating and terrifying.

  15. Even Adolf Hitler is concerned about Driscoll’s expanding empire:

  16. i saw that. busted me up! put a lot of text in and it’s hard to read at some points, but one can pause ;-).
    the lines about going about of style and the register are classic!
    i lived in socal before moving to iowa, so i got most of the references.
    i’ll embed it here. thanx!

  17. “and please don’t argue that what he wrote in the sand was a disciplinary contract ”

    Best. Line. Ever.

  18. If by some chance Andrew – the former member of Mars Hill – is reading this, I’d like to assure him that although he may have “removed himself from the protection, covering, and fellowship” of a particular church, he is still fully known, loved and cared for by God.

  19. Hey Joe,

    What about 2 Corinthians 2:5-11? Andrew is repentant- he wasn’t caught. He confessed to spiritual mentors, as well as his fiance, and willingly attended many meetings. And remember from 1 Cor that the man in question was sleeping with his step mother.
    Forgiveness for the Offender

     5 If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. 6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. 9 Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

  20. […] him except “for the purpose of admonishment.”Robert Cargill isn’t wrong: “That is the definite activity of a cult. … If you are a member of the Mars Hill church, get out.”But perhaps I’m being unfair […]

  21. […] have weighed in on the issue, including Jonathan Fitzgerald, Dianna Anderson, Sarah Moon, and Bob Cargill.  These people are more articulate than I.  So instead of writing about this myself, I urge you […]

  22. […] evidence against Mark Driscoll’s douchebag-theology. It’s one more reason to reaffirm what Robert Cargill said: “If you a member of the Mars Hill church, get out.”But then part of the response to […]

  23. I think the whole of Christianity is becoming a cult. More and more we hear about “spread the word” and “convert everyone” and they still push to have the Ten Commandments and Christian laws written on our government buildings and forced on people who simply just want to live.

    I say get rid of it all. I’m sick of Christians, I’m sick of their version of God and honestly wish they’d all just go away.

  24. […] Dr. Robert Cargill […]

  25. Just a bunch of repressed, sexually dysfunctional little boys trying to hid from themselves in a herd of other dysfunctional little boys. When the lid blows on this little drama I am willing to bet money there will be numerous stories about the good pastors sexual behavior. Lets’ see, we have a powerful (?) middle-aged white male obsessed with sin and punishment s urrounding himself with guilt stricken young men obsessed with sin, sex and power over other men…sounds like a script for a gay porn flick.

  26. Pastor Mark has a history of dishonesty.
    In the Mars Hill Doctrine series, he used a fake quote to try to smear atheists.

    He can’t remember if God audibly spoke to him in Idaho or Washington:

    He tried to blame Ted Haggard’s wife for his actions, then later denied ever saying anything about the Haggards:

  27. […] Jesus Needs New PR looks at Church Discipline within Mark Driscoll’s Mars Hill, with follow up comments from […]

  28. Asssuming Joe & Jim are not the same person with two heads (as in Heinlein’s “Universe”) and not part of “Deep Throat” Driscoll’s Thought Police Truth Squad, they illustrate a common Christianese mistake.

    Defining “Cult” entirely in terms of Theology instead of abusive control-freak behavior. This messed me up during the Seventies, when I was involved in such an aberrant Christian Fellowship(TM), over-their-head into the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement. All the Christianese Cult-Watch groups of the time defined “Cult” entirely in terms of non-orthodox (non-Evangelical, actually) theology, completely ignoring spiritual abuse and control-freaking. While they parsed Theology letter-by-letter, a lot of abuse went on under their radar. And the Not-a-Cult Leaders would point to their clean bill of Theological health as an additional weapon to use on their followers.

  29. Just a bunch of repressed, sexually dysfunctional little boys trying to hid from themselves in a herd of other dysfunctional little boys. When the lid blows on this little drama I am willing to bet money there will be numerous stories about the good pastors sexual behavior. Lets’ see, we have a powerful (?) middle-aged white male obsessed with sin and punishment s urrounding himself with guilt stricken young men obsessed with sin, sex and power over other men…sounds like a script for a gay porn flick.

    Driscoll appears to be sexually obsessed, possibly to the point of being a male nymphomaniac. His infamous Song of Solomon sermon series comes across as Porn for Christians; his “visions” are probably his sexual fantasies coming out in an acceptable form (and he might not even be conscious of this). He has shown himself to be a control freak obsessed with Machismo (possibly a high school Beta-Male doughy boy trying to climb up into an Alpha Male), and an autocratic boss who surrounds himself with personally-groomed yes-men, so he has NO reality check. More terrible, all this is cosmically-justified by Divine Right.

    And the worst thing about it is as a CELEBRITY Megachurch pastor (emphasis on CELEBRITY), he cannot show any weakness or flaw. He is God’s Anointed, He Has To Be Perfect and Uber-Spiritual. All it can do is build up inside, with more and more attempts at self-medication by preaching. I figure he’s headed for a big fall a la Jimmy Swaggart and Ted Haggard; I expect his CELEBRITY Christianese career to end with a bang, in a sex scandal.

  30. […] a story about sin, repentance, and Mars Hill Church. The story (via @JesusNeedsNewPR).  And a startling interpretation (via @drantbradley). Links do not mean I agree on this […]

  31. […] all of the turmoil that Mark Driscoll has brought upon his Mars Hill church franchise in recent months (see the […]

  32. I recently left mars hill due to problems that kept happening. I finally got tired of the stress that i delt with for almost 2 years there. I checked out one other church but would like to check out more. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Preferably non denominational. My email is and my name on Facebook is Mark bent. Thanks.

  33. @Mark Bent

    I suggest you read “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin. You can check her website for further information about the book and the author. The book takes the reader through a number of issues that influence people to leave church. I read the book; it’s excellent!

  34. Luke 17:3, a text similar in content to Matthew 18:15, says this:

    “If another disciple sins, you must rebuke the offender, and if there is repentance, you must forgive. And if the same person sins against you seven times a day, and turns back to you seven times and says, “I repent”, you must forgive.’” (NRSV)

    This verse very clearly implies that the forgiveness and disciplinary process, even against a disciple who has sinned SEVEN TIMES in the SAME DAY, can be legitimately conducted WITHOUT a month of intricate meetings and exposures to divers committees and inquiring members of the church. Why has not Mr. Driscoll taken this verse into account?

    According to Jesus’ own words: 1. sin leading to 2. rebuke leading to 3. Verbal repentance leading to 4. forgiveness can all occur on the same day before ONE OTHER PERSON. If said offender sins again on the same day, the process is to be undergone again without losing an ounce of its legitimacy.

  35. If not strictly a cult there are really worrying signs. I write as a church pastor who has on a few occasions had to exclude people from the church for repeated actions that damaged people. However this is so lacking in grace.

    If people think this could never happen I bring the example of the Plymouth brethren. Founded in faith, Bible based and a great movement. The leader, jack taylor, went on a power trip and started delving for sins. A friends brother was excommunicated for going to the cinema; she was excommunicated for eating a meal with him.

    What if Andrews relatives were in mhc would they have to stop eating with him? If this is a one off then I might put it down to a person with an agenda but it’s not. He is graceless with his mouth, graceless to the weak and non macho and he is creating a church in his image. Obviously a deeply confused individual on a power trip who is doing harm to the kingdom of God

  36. It is nice if someone submits to this kind of doctrine one their own accord, but if there is coercion. And if any perceived slight can be perceived as insubordination. This is worse in some cases of what I have heard about the IFB. I don’t believe a minor disagreement with a pastor over a building safety covenant would be made an issue of monumental proportions in an IFB church, and I believe the IFB church can definitely be cultic.

  37. The elephant in the living room here is the fact that anyone with a brain in their head still believes in ANY of this crap. Get out of the churches, start thinking for yourselves, people! There is no GOD! Human beings created all of these MYTHS! THINK! THINK! THINK!

  38. […] will it end? Story. After story. After story. After story. After story. After story. After story. After story. After story. After […]

  39. I love Seattle and my parents and sister live there. My sister is a member of Mars Hill church. I am really worry for her. But she is easily persuaded and when she was young she was into the Harikrishna stuff.. I wanted to go live in Seattle after my husband retires but I feel I need a psychological distance from my sister who is constantly engaged in conversation about her doctrine…I am not sure how to convince her this is wrong!!!

  40. Paul the apostle would probably fit this definition of a cult leader, and he disciplined someone in the church in pretty much the same manner. And it was redemptive in nature, “turn him over to Satan,” that he might find repentance, so his soul may be saved.

    And cessasionist ideas are ludicrous. Yes the canon is closed but the Holy Spirit is alive and well. All the gifts of the Spirit are in operation. Furthermore, if demons still exist and are operating, and times are getting darker before Jesus comes, according to his word, why would God disarm his people? That’s why cessassionism is silly, not to mention that no where in scripture does it indicate the gifts would cease. That would also mean the GIFTs of teachers and pastors would cease. Men just want to deny the gifts out of fear and the desire to be in control and also take credit. But it’s nothing more than intellectual and spiritual bondage.

  41. Interesting perspective…
    I’ll admit that I listen to some of his podcasts, and on some issues I agree with him. But there are other points that he makes that sound… me.
    I think with any church, you need to carefully consider what is being taught, and if you agree with their mission and creed.

    It’s funny that you mention the whole excommunication letter thing, because I know of an English speaking/North American ex-pat church in Seoul that does something similar. They really have many things in common with Mars Hill, and they are very much a charismatic church. When they have a member that has repeatedly sinned, they talk to that person, and if they are unrepentant they basically tell that person they are not welcome back into that church. They don’t publish a letter to the members of the church, but they talk about it at their next big prayer servie or meeting.
    While I can see the value of having an accountability partner, I don’t think it should be a) signed into a contract, or b) broadcast to the entire church when you fall – frankly it should be none of their business.
    Maybe Mars HIll does this because they are really trying to promote the concept of family; you might talk about an issue like this within your own family, and Mars Hill really seems to encourage the development of their church community as a family…

  42. It’s pretty evident from the video that Mark is a mysogynist. He believes churches are built for “40-something women…and their children,” and says this as though it’s a death knell for christianity. Ha ha ha … I have some news for Mark. When he runs off all the young, virile studs who will sire the massive family church population that will keep him fat and happy…and they WILL all run, just like poor Andrew…the only thing Mark can hope is that the women and their children (who include young boys becoming men) don’t go with their sex-enslaved sinner husbands. Driscoll is either (or both) a male nympho as noted by an earlier comment or delusional narcissist. Either way, several of us agree that at some point in the future it is likely his own “truth” will be disclosed. It’s as predictable as the sun rising each day. What a dangerous idiot.

  43. You mention, “if you need help getting out?”. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I think it is much too difficult to actually get connected into the church body. Your experience in the church is mostly driven from small gatherings in someone’s home which take some time to get plugged into. I would imagine in a church of 18000 or so, you can probably find real problems going on, but I am amazed that the church discipline story is such a big deal. Mark is a very dynamic preacher, but so is Hybels in Chicago, or Keller in NYC, both are very successful and admired church leaders.

    I am a member of the church, I have been a Christian for about 15 years and am well educated in the Bible, and a senior leader in business to earn my living. I have gone to PCA churches, Baptist churches, and many others, as well as 7 years in BSF. Mars Hill is about as mainstream as any church I have been to, save for the music which is somewhat jarring if you are over 40 or 50. It will not be your cup of tea if you like the old hymnal style praise service.

    If a cult is defined as a Christian who actually accepts Christianity as literal truth, then yes, I guess it is:-) What makes Mars Hill strange is that they actually preach and teach from the bible and follow the new testament pattern for church life, not some watered down version that questions the resurrection, or other key tenants of the faith.

    If you don’t accept the truth of Christianity, that is your prerogative. But speaking of Mars Hill in the way you are, out of ignorance, is not honest.

    If someone wants out of Mars Hill Church, they simply stop attending, and go to another church. If you want to continue in your sin as a member, you will be cast out of the church as specified in the New Testament.

    I think your motives may be in the right place, but from my perspective you are simply gossiping on a grand scale. Of all the churches we have attended, Mars Hill is one of the best and most biblical based.

  44. In cults, you are NOT allowed to leave or you are disciplined if you TRY to leave. Instead of the world “cult” maybe a more accurate/acceptable term would be “cliche.” In cliche’s people want to get accepted into the group so they have to abide by certain rules. If they don’t follow the rules then they get ostracized and turfed out. This is similar to being in a business that is an “old boys network” etc.

  45. Personally, I don’t believe in Mega Churches because they feel more like a business than a church. Their product is entertainment and the physical churches seem more like real estate assets on a balance sheet than genuine places of worship.

  46. Robert,
    My point is. Clearly you don’t read church history, or have forgotten. Open transparency among Christians was a practice of the early church, encouraged by it’s early leadership, and is encouraged within healthy churches today. Early Christians even went to deeper attempts to prove loyalty and accountability to the body of Christ because they were once viewed as a cult against the polytheistic beliefs of Roman society. It appears in your view Mark as a Christian leader has come full circle into “cult status.”

    Using youtube isn’t a mistake. It’s an intelligent descision on the part of a person who recognized how to be relevant and reach people who, like you would never walk into Marks church, much less give him a chance. Also, you’ve shown your hand in your response. You don’t know much more about him than what you view. The very scriptures you alude to about Jesus and who he spent time with are the very people Mark tends to spend time with. This is why he gets criticized by evangelical pastors and mainlines alike in the local Puget Sound. It’s because of his love for these very people that he founded the church. But again you’re not here. This is what I mean when I say, C’mon. You’re in Iowa. Please. Not being local you don’t understand the ways in which Mark and his church has been attacked and praised in the city at the same time. You take for granted the efforts the church has made to make everything clear regarding what they believe. Pastors who think it’s wrong to hang around people who are “inappropriate,” these are the people Mark not only holds close to his heart, but goes out of his way to personally connect with. But you wouldn’t know that cause you don’t know him, or see what he has done in the city, or know who he connects with cause, again. You’re in Iowa. I can’t undestand Iowans any more than you can understand Seattlites. And Marks church is filled with these people who were viewed as unacceptable by liberals and consevatives, horrible sinners, & sanctimonious “saints.”

    Of course. He must be a cult leader. How else could anyone in liberal, unruly, disrespectful Seattle get that many people to follow him? This is the home of WTO & so many other trainwrecks of people trying to hold others accountable and have it go totally wrong.

    He must be a cult leader. Or could it be that people gravitate toward truth more in places where there is none? Where there is no line in the sand, no one gathers to grow. You’re a professor. You know. If there are no standards there is no growth. Unless you simply believe in fee association in your classroom. In which case how would you create structure? Write a syllabus? I’m sure your university holds you to some standard. Right? Or how did you become a professor there? You must have lines in the sand. Standards?

    If Mark were founding a cult, wouldn’t this information be kept secret? Wouldn’t they strive to make sure this information did not come out? Wouldn’t they be in Iowa? Not rebellious independent free thinking Seattle? Even result to killing in order to keep it from getting out? Yet he openly talks about these beliefs, …on youtube no less….yeah, what a fool! Total cult leader.

  47. “how much more evidence do you need? mark driscolls mars
    hill church is a cult XKV8R: The Official Blog of Dr. Robert R.
    Cargill” really causes me personally think a little bit extra. I
    actually admired every single part of this post. Thank you

  48. Interesting reading these comments. I just wondered how many of you would put the controlling nature of the Muslim religion in the same category. I don’t know how I feel about Mark Driscoll because I just heard of him. I do find it rather funny that the same people who come down hard on fundamental conservative Christians usually give Muslims a pass. Any ideas or discussion?

  49. Look your ridiculous. The Catholic Church has been doing what your accusing mars hill of doing for thousands of years. Your letting a good man stand trail accused before a full investigation. When your a pastor your responsible for your congregation and if a member is proven to be a cancer to the purpose of Gods glory or could hinder spiritual growth then yes you should kick him out before he does more damage to the church. This I not new or is it old fashion churches still do it today. Stop trying to make a name for yourself proclaiming your education gives you the right to sit in judgment of others. How many people have you brought to Christ an his love and glory He has for us? Do you wake up everyday and say how can I bring glory to God or do you say how can I bring Glory to myself? You have every right to say what you want and with your education you should understand that your words will be judged by others and by God. You are no body without God you can not change anything without God’s power or satans power the question is who’s side are you on? Please ask yourself these questions and stop tearing down faith and hope people need! I do not go to mars hill church or do I know mr Marc Driscoll but something tells me you are a jealous ignorant individual looking to get in the headlines and interested in doing work of which you don’t understand. Your ego is being used by a darker power and no this isn’t Star Wars but you have to re read your blog.

  50. Even in churches which have a tradition of confession, the priests hold those confessions in confidence! What that “pastor” is doing in reality is a form of gossip and it is a sin. It’s manipulative and God will hold that pastor responsible.

  51. if anything, the church should be targeting young men because that is the start of a christian household…..there are no tricks or “what is actually happening behind the scenes”, if you cant take what hes saying because he’s not “beating around the bush” and trying to be nice like most pastors and its harsh and to the point then maybe you need to look at yourself and repent. Most people want to look at the bright side, which Mark does a lot of and nobody wants to see what they are doing wrong because they dont want to be confronted about it but really? suck it up, confess and be strong, a sin is a sin no matter how big or small and everyone will have to speak for there own in front of Him. So what if he has flaws, you do to so how does that make him any different from you? your making a website of hate towards somebody else before you’ve even met the guy, case closed.

  52. Christians bashing other Christians? How does that make you any better? Just because there is a different between people doesnt mean you let Satan get his way and separate the Christians as a household, look at the big picture. The more you are against any Christian….the more Satan is patting you on the back saying “hey, your falling for my trick and doing a pretty good job” he doesnt want us all united but to be hating each other.

  53. Mark Driscoll wants you hating others. That we know. That we can see. Mark Driscoll wants people to agree with him or burn in hell. There is no evidence for Satan, but there is all kinds of evidence that Mark Driscoll wants his people to hate some people, many of whom are Christians.

  54. he wants you to hate other people? he says just the opposite… many sermons have you really watched before you start judging? have you seen the inside of his churches? they’re filled with every type of person so saying that he wants us to hate each other is completely ridiculous. Show me where he says that he wants us christians to hate each other.

  55. all of you people disgust me…..if you say your a true christian you wouldnt be pointing out and publicizing a pastors flaws and talking hate about him

  56. The love that resides in people outside of Christianity outside of his church and in the secular world will crush this silly little confused. man.

  57. This is perhaps the most logically flawed comment that has ever been left on my blog. Beyond the grammar and spelling issues, you seem to be arguing that ‘true Christians’ wouldn’t point out the flaws of a pastor.

    There is so much wrong with this comment, it’s hard to grasp.

    1) It is the job of Christians to bring a corrective to those in the faith who are leading others astray.
    2) Who says I’m a Christian?
    3) What difference does it make? Mark Driscoll is a flawed, hateful person. He admits this.

    Are you really arguing that Christians should not point out the flaws in other Christians? That they cannot debate issues? If so, why are you leaving this comment?

    I shake my head.

  58. No you can point out flaws as the Bible says man should sharpen man like iron sharpens iron, but you are hating. Everyone is flawed along with Mark Driscoll, but its as if you’re starting your own cult against one guy. I want you to show me exactly where he says we should hate each other as you said a couple comments up. Of course they can debate issues I said nothing of the sort that they can’t debate issues. Thats human, but what if someone had a website about all of your flaws? And Kevin. The love outside of christianity is love and trust me I’ve been there and done that, but the love that Jesus has for you is actually something that will get you somewhere called heaven. So what if i choose to believe in God, but if i want to live my life for him and have an awesome life then figure out he’s not real then so what? i still had an awesome life, but if I find out he is real then I chose the right side to be on.

  59. Everyone will live forever, but the difference is where.

  60. Your links to the Matthew Paul Turner blog are broken. I was able to find his article at this link:

    Thank you for your article I have linked it in: Why Mars Hill was the perfect incubator for questionable naturopathy.

    Valerie Tarico

  61. I couldnt tell if this was a Christian site with all the scripture references, yet bashing Christians at the same time. Very odd.

  62. Well, since this post several years ago, Mark Driscoll was fired from his church and is no longer with Mars Hill. I believe he’s now in Arizona starting another church.

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